The Learning Journey
The Learning Journey
The Personalized Learning Journey with Allison Hunt
Featuring: Allison Hunt, Director, Global Curriculum Lead, Advanced Wound Management
BIO: Allison is an accomplished educator, lifelong learner, and advocate for innovative teaching and learning methodologies. With a passion for fostering creativity and critical thinking in the classroom, she has dedicated her career to pushing the boundaries of traditional education. She was the Senior Manager of Professional Development at the Board of Certification for Athletic Trainer, where she spearheaded innovative programs, reduced processing times, and successfully pitched new ideas. Her extensive experience and commitment to innovation in education fostered significant contributions to the company, leading to her current role as the Director and Global Curriculum Lead for Advanced Wound Management at Smith+Nephew, where she oversees global instructional design and project management.
Description: This episode of the Learning Journey Podcast explores the transformative power of personalized learning in the Life Sciences industry. Joined by education expert Allison Hunt, she discusses how tailored learning experiences can boost learner engagement and performance. Allison delves into the importance of aligning training with business goals, leveraging AI technology for personalized learning, and overcoming barriers to adoption. The conversation highlights the link between training and sales performance, with practical insights and a focus on measurement and skill assessments. This episode offers valuable guidance for driving effective personalized learning initiatives in the Life Sciences.
What you will learn:
1. Personalized Learning Boosts Engagement and Performance: Tailoring learning experiences to individual preferences and needs can significantly enhance learner engagement, motivation, and performance.
2. Linking Training to Sales Performance is Key: By measuring the impact of training on sales performance over time, organizations can demonstrate the tangible benefits of investing in personalized learning and drive cultural shifts towards prioritizing ongoing employee development.
3. Engage Senior Leadership to Drive Change: To successfully implement personalized learning initiatives, it's crucial to involve senior leadership and showcase the research and evidence supporting its effectiveness, encouraging buy-in and support for innovation in education and training.
SHOW NOTES:
Guest LinkedIn: Allison Hunt
Smith + Nephew is a portfolio medical technology company focused on the repair, regeneration and replacement of soft and hard tissue. They exist to restore people’s bodies and their self-belief by using technology to take the limits off living.
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BLOG: Unlocking Sales Excellence: How Personalized Learning Elevates Pharma Training ROI
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Welcome back to the Learning Journey Podcast. I'm your host, Christina Belyea. Today we are diving into another hot topic, personalized learning. The transition from a one size fits all training approach to personalized learning is not merely a shift in methodology. It's a transformation in optimizing the knowledge and skills of field representatives. For learners. Personalized learning translates to a more engaged and relevant learning journey, boosting motivation, engagement, investment, and skill acquisition. It's a win-win for businesses as it leads to a more competent and confident workforce and improved overall performance. Today's guest is an accomplished educator, lifelong learner, and advocate for innovative teaching and learning methodologies. With a passion for fostering creativity and critical thinking, she has dedicated her career to pushing the boundaries of traditional education. She was the senior manager of professional development at the Board of Certification for Athletic Trainer, where she spearheaded innovative programs, reducing processing times and successfully pitching new ideas, her extensive experience and commitment to innovation and education. Fostered significant contributions to the company, leading her to her current role as the director of global curriculum lead for advanced wound management at Smith and Nephew, where she oversees global instructional design and project management. Our guest today is Alison Hunt. Alison, welcome to the show.
Allison:Thank you so much, Christina. I appreciate it. Glad to be here. I
Kristina:am so excited. this is up there with gamification personalized learning for me is. A topic I love to get into, but before we dive in, we begin each episode by asking our guests why they're so passionate about assisting people and the industry In finding and excelling in their journeys, Alison, tell us your why.
Allison:Well, I, I think things really clicked for me when I was in graduate school. I took this class, the teaching learners how to learn. And I, from there, I knew that I wanted to be in the learning sciences for the rest of my life. So I'm, I think I'm most passionate about creating effective learners. Wherever I go. I think that if you can learn things more effectively that I think produces not only more effective employees, but more engaged there. I think they're more happy. They're living out on their strengths. And so I think it's just it manifested to so much.
Kristina:Oh, I love that. we talk about this a lot is that, especially with technology, that learning does need to be always transforming and changing and innovating. And I how many times did you start a new role and you're just Oh my gosh this is clearly like check the box training and how can I how can I get through
Allison:this really quickly? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, we've all been there and done that.
Kristina:Yes, yes. I think this is really exciting to have you and to have your expertise on this. We're sort of just starting to launch a lot of personalized learning at Acto, but really let's go back and Just start with what is personalized learning and you know, talked a little bit about the impact on the sales reps, but let's set the stage for the listeners on, what it is for that field sales representative outlook.
Allison:Yeah, I would say it is. Self directed learning. It is about choice, about guided choice. I think that it's, it can be directed by learners preferences or their needs on their way to delivering mastery. I think that's really what's behind it for the rep. I think when we talk about learning preferences, I think we talk, I think It's speaking more about their interests and what they're motivated to to learn more in. Like what they want to be upskilling it's, it feeds into that whole engagement piece. If the more that they are interested, the more that they are seeking to upskill the more engaged that they're going to be. And I think that personalized learning offers that, that sort of experience that they are looking for.
Kristina:And especially because we talk a lot about pull through learning. how do you take that learning and go through past the live event on to just that continuous pull through. because, if you're engaged, you're just going to automatically want to go do that versus I have to do this and it gets, you I mean, I'm probably not alone here, but it's like you put it as an admin task, which is very like, when is it due? I'm doing it an hour before it's due.
Allison:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I think the more engaged that you are, the more that you want to do it. That's it. You're excited by it. You want to be learning. So that's, yeah, you hit the nail on the head. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's important to See like the evolution as it has been in the last 10 years of what personalized learning looks like. I first started seeing personalized learning in branch learning. So in e learning if you're familiar with Articulate, like that's a baked in feature of the product is branch learning. I think then it started to evolve from there into micro credentialing and we see this micro credentialing that we have these small bite sized chunks that an individual is able to take in and become and have that mastery level as they are consuming these bite sized chunks. I also see personalized learning. And like the latest technology and AI and like in stuff like chat GPT. I think that we can use that tool as like a infield tool to helping like sales reps utilize that in customer conversations. So that's something that we're currently exploring
Kristina:now. Yeah. And I think that kind of goes really well into kind of shifting to why is this so important for life sciences? to me, this just makes so much sense. You'd have to have personalized learning because someone who's been in life sciences for 10 years is not going to want to take, like you said, three micro learning packs on life sciences because they know it. So talk to us a little bit about how you're seeing the importance of personalized learning in the life science space.
Allison:Yeah. I think it's exactly that though, because people have such buried. background. You're not going to have a one size fits all approach. I think that in pharma, you have to have, you have to take your basic fundamental courses for compliance. Like you have to have that baseline, right? But then having Intermediate and advanced courses available for those reps to take, where they can specialize, where they can cover areas that maybe they don't have that in their background, or maybe they do, and they really they want to be taking advanced courses in XYZ. That's really important. I think it's a... They, you want to keep your folks engaged you want them to continue to upskill and how do you meet your audience that is so varied with those different backgrounds, different educational backgrounds. Personalized learning is definitely the route to go.
Kristina:Yeah. And I just had a thought too, when we say personalized learning I mean, how do you envision that journey of if you and I were starting at the same company, what, how we would go on our own sort of individual paths?
Allison:Yeah, that's a great question. It could be where people are testing out. It could be where you create a process for a rep to upskill or transition in their position through training. So like in our organization sales reps can become a specialist, but only if they are taking this intermediate and advanced training, right? Like they they have to certify in a particular pathway, in a particular curriculum. Once they certify them, they are now eligible to be selling XYZ as a specialist.
Kristina:Oh wow. And that gives them more opportunity with different doctor that is exciting. Yeah. And especially because. Yeah. Sometimes as a sales rep it can get pretty static. So that is, that's fantastic. where do you see that this personalized learning is really going to have the biggest impact to you? Pharmaceutical companies
Allison:at the end of the day, they're thinking about the dollar, right? but there is clear research that we see this in academics. We see that The learners who are most engaged is highly correlated to academic success. That is very clear in the research. We are also seeing this in business where the research shows that those, the reps who perform. In training outperform those in their sales. There's a clear linkage to Performing and training and performing well in the field So I think that at the end of the day the business wants that and they don't they don't want to create the click and play e learnings that people are like you said at the beginning of it, that they're just falling asleep at, they want to create engaged learning. They want their reps to be excited and they want to upskill. That's good for the business. There's some research out there that also suggests that. Tenured reps the more advanced training that they take, the more longevity that they have at that organization. They want to stay. You retain those reps. And it's because they're engaged in the training. They're being up skilled. They're, you're developing them. I think, and we see that in, in Gallup as well. Like it's important to continue to pour into your people to develop them. They want to stay. So I think that, Business, it's a no brainer.
Kristina:One would think. And and I think it's because something that we always hear is like, how do you link learning to performance? Yeah. So I think that this sounds like this would be a way what are your sort of thoughts on that elusive ROI of learning to perform it?
Allison:Yeah. And it's you know, and it's hard to measure. We are pouring a lot into measurement, tracking, reporting, analytics to understand the impact and the value of our training. But I think that it's clear that over time, like we see that with our reps, that they are outperforming their counterparts in the field with the more training that they have, the better performance that they have in the training. You see That in the field.
Kristina:we talk about too, beyond just training. Is this sort of personalized learning going into, like I said, that pull through where someone who's already been in the field, are they offered additional training or like you said, like leveling up to different sort of positions?
Allison:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think that it's important to offer folks those intermediate, advanced, expert courses so that they can continue to upskill you know, without that they're just doing like the day to day, the status quo, and trying to find development opportunities where they can. So I think that the business does well to get ahead of that and provide those opportunities for them. So that it, they see that ROI that goes back into the business when they're developing them. Like in their specialties or developing them in their roles. Enablement.
Kristina:All of that sounds like a no brainer to me, but that's for the businesses, but let's talk about to the learners, about how the personalized learning we said that it engages them, it gives them more confidence, but let's sort of dig in if you can give us some more background or even examples that would be great.
Thank
Allison:you. I think that it goes back to the whole engagement and motivation piece if you can create ways to foster intrinsic motivation That leads to better performance And really that I think I quite simply that is the impact for it. We want people to You want, you, you want to retain people who are excited for growth and learning and what better way to do that than to create personalized pathways to develop them in their roles. I think that really that's what it comes down to, like quite simply.
Kristina:And would you put KPIs, so beyond training, is there KPIs that are linked to the learning or is it just the learning's there and they would just do it because they wanted to? Yeah. Yeah.
Allison:Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, it's something that I'm obsessed with in, in my role is assessment and measurements. Because I think that you have various KPIs that are attached to the learning and the training. I think that you can have. KPI is that you have your objectives, you have your assessment in the training, like that's can be a KPI sales performance can be a KPI sales performance over time, because there's also research to suggest that if you're not, if your sales performance peaks, like immediately after training, and then it declines And so the research shows that if you continue to pour into people and continue to develop them, their sales performance will remain more steady over time. So all the more reason to engage them, to foster that intrinsic motivation, to get them excited so that they will want to take that. And so they recognize the research and continue to know more, sell more.
Kristina:Yeah, and When you're thinking about this, is there, is it like an uphill to create everything? And then once it's created, it's good give the listeners an idea of what really, what's, what's involved when you're thinking about, okay, I'm going to start this how do you even start?
Allison:Yeah. Yeah. And I think that it's when I was preparing for this I thought a lot about that. What would it, what would that. Kind of energy would that take? Because I'm all about it. I'm all excited let's create that those individualized Pathways, let's create like those branch learning Let's upskill people, but it also we need the content and that's additional work to personalize the learning even like in a branched scenario in an e learning, you then have to create the additional content for those particular pathways that a learner could select. So you give them a case scenario problem based learning, and then they can choose A or B, and the next one they can choose A, B, C, where then you have to have outputs for A, B, and then A, B, C. So it's just additional content that you have to create. For us and our subject matter experts that are coming from marketing and our training managers and things like that. It's just it's a bit of an ask to have them create that additional content. But in a case like that, and it's worthwhile, I think.
Kristina:Cause you're, like you said, you're doing that measurement and analytics and tracking. And with the engagement and the reps being retained. Cause a couple of years ago is the great resignation. So I like that you're that it shows that the more engaged and invested in the more reps will be retained at where they're at. But, and I'm really interested. I when you talk about measurements and analytics. Can you give some ideas of what that looks like? Knowing that you're going to have to put some work into the content, what does that output look like? What do those analytics look like after you have
Allison:done that? Yeah I think it, it goes back to the particular learning objectives of that training. What is it that, You want the reps to be able to do by the end of this. Then the assessment has to cater to those particular objectives. Your KPIs then are based off of those assessments and those measurements. So I think I'm the assessment queen in our little commercial training group. But my favorite things are not you know, quizzes, like that's, those are simple and quick and easy to do, but I would much rather have reps do skill assessments. And we have various platforms that we can have them do that, whether it's virtually or in person but skill assessments are where it's at learning reps, remember what you ask them to do, not what you say, that's how adult learning goes, right? And so it's we want them to do, we want them to do. And so I think that's what has to feed into the KPIs. That's how we're going to measure learning. That's how we measure change. Over time.
Kristina:Yeah. And when you see skill assessment, what does that is that sort of some soft skills? Is that a little bit of learning and skills? Can you talk to a little bit more about what that means?
Allison:Yeah. So I think that role play um, for yeah, yeah uh, role play for like our sales enablement strategy I think that being able to speak to the messaging of products. Being able to speak to the evidence of products, so all of that can is a skill and it needs a skill assessment needs like a scoring rubric and those things we want to give reps multiple opportunities to to phrase that for their customers and multiple opportunities to advance. That's those skills. And creating the skill assessment and using the scoring rubric I think it is very, an easy way to, to go about that.
Kristina:Oh, yeah. And I'm just thinking too, we had a webinar, we talked early in the year, a lot about how without meaning to, There's that sort of issue of unapproved content being used. And again, probably not any fault, but just sometimes when you're saying something and you maybe haven't had the. Chance to practice, like you said, how you're supposed to phrase the evidence or phrase, things like that. I really think that, or I mean maybe this you know, you can correct me. Do you really think that this is going to help with that unapproved content?
Allison:No, I think yeah, we go through very similar things as well, where the evidence changes, the messaging changes, we learn new things about the mode of action of our products. And so we have to see that change in the field. Yeah, and learning is about. change. Without change, there is no learning, right? At a biological level, at a cellular level, we can actually see these things happening. The same thing in behavior. Without that, there is no learning. So we have to have opportunities for reps to try and to fail. And really if there's no correction, has there been any change? Right. So it, I think the more practice opportunities that we can give them, the better. So I'm thinking of a specific project right now where the messaging has changed, and they're they're no longer, Able to say X, Y, Z, the need to say A, B, C now. And yeah, And so it's and you have to think about how often they go through that messaging within customer conversations for X amount of months and years. And now they are not allowed to say those things. You have to say this. How do you change that behavior? But through practice and repetition. Yeah. And hopefully not in front of customers. So give them a safe place to do that. Give them those skill assessments, most practice opportunities.
Kristina:Yes. I was thinking about we had David Noonan from Red Nucleus And I liked it because you said that's the whole idea with gamification is like practice, the repetition, and it's okay to fail. And as a rep, you're always worried. If I get this wrong, then you know, that's the Red X next to your name. But we haven't really talked about the tech that you guys are using, but so is that sort of in your platform where they have the ability to try it a few times? or how does that sort of work when, when they're sort of trying to practice these new things?
Allison:Yeah well, let's go back to the new messaging problem that we're discussing. We have a platform that has AI technology that actually you can give it. A list of words that the rep cannot say. And so if the rep goes through their messaging and they say this word and this and this, then it'll flag in their video and they record themselves. And so that's a really helpful tool, but again, like it's, you have to give them the practice and you should expect that they should fail. Because then they have that correction and then learning has taken place and then it's giving them that, that safe space to make the whoops.
Kristina:Right before you said safe space, that word popped into my head because I was like, Oh my gosh, that's an amazing safe space.
Allison:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Cause you don't want to have it with the customer, right? That's not. Where you want that to happen.
Kristina:And I think especially with like med devices, pharma, all of it. it changes all of the time. The products are, it's not like it's just stays as. A pack of gum and it just, it is what it is forever, like it's always evolving. So I think that Yeah. I like that as we're transforming, we have platforms, we have technology, we can do this. The AI thing blew my mind. That is so cool that you could just know is, and I have to sort of get into the nitty gritty just for the rest of the nerds listening to the podcast, So if I was a rep and I was going through it, do I submit it? And then it I get an instant feedback. how does that sort of feedback, I guess we'll call the gamification of it all. How does that work?
Allison:Yeah, Yeah, it, so it's feedback to the learner after they have submitted. And yeah, it's not, yeah, that would be a little scary if it was like like flashing, like the red Xs as you're trying to record it. Yeah, so it's, it'd be after the fact. So they can go back and review to say, Oh man, like I thought that I got that right or I thought that I nailed it, but I can see that I said these words that I'm not supposed to say anymore. So,
Kristina:Yeah. And it's programmed. So it is a big deal. I don't think people outside the industry, but in the industry, we know it's a big deal when these changes happen. Yeah.
Allison:Yeah. They've had lots of repetition, right? And that's a, an effective strategy for learning is repetition. So now we have some unlearning to do in that case. So.
Kristina:What do you think is the biggest barrier? Cause it sounds, if I'm just listening, I would be like, okay, sign me up. But we both know that's not the case in the life science industry. So why is there this hesitation when we we've just talked about how beneficial all of the confidence and competent and all of those engagement and investment. Those are words, but they really have meaning when we're talking about this, but so what sort of in your mind Maybe why is there this hesitation in life science to really jump on to this bandwagon? We'll call it a bandwagon. Jump onto this track. Yeah. Yeah
Allison:I think a couple things are behind it one. I think it's time when I think about reps specializing in their role, and then I think about the curriculum that needs to be available to them then I think about the subject matter experts that we would need to work with to develop those courses, those opportunities, those curricula. So I think that it's time and resourcing for business that is one of them. And I think the other is. The technology piece, right? I think that you touched on this a little earlier where there's this hesitation or apprehension to with chat GPT. What does that look like? How can that be used for personalized learning? I think there's a great place for it. But I think that There, a lot of businesses are trying to figure out the technology part the AI components how can that be utilized? In what ways? So I think that there, I think a lot of organizations are in exploratory phase right now. And so then it goes back to the resourcing and the time. And so in integrating those pieces as well.
Kristina:And then we talked about the measurement analytics and KPIs. If they set that up to give that business case, you can really say like, we can link learning to performance and we can watch the reps those seasoned or those new ones and the impact that this training has.
Allison:Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I think it's, I think you can make the case pretty well by watching sales performance over time. By, by, by watching, by linking their performance and training with how well they are doing. With how they're doing in the field, you can watch their performance where they are completing certifications like at that fundamental intermediate level and their sales are arcing up. And then when the training stops and they're been in the field and they're just going, sometimes they see that dip in, in, in performance. So we do see like that direct correlation with performance and training performance in the field.
Kristina:Oh, wow. And then has there been any sort of rough feedback that you've given as everyone on board? Is it people have to be convinced this will help you hit your target? How does that play out?
Allison:I love that question. I love that question. So it's there. There are some cultural things to work. I don't think it's unique at Smith and Nephew, but I think there's some cultural things to work at because our commercial learning teams were all about this and we see the research, but I think it's moving the culture where sales and marketing are. They both see that impact. They both see the benefit of that. Because I think if more reps that then they would put their attention into the training. They would be more engaged. So I think that's a little bit on, on the commercial learning teams. It's on them to really put that out there to move the dial a little bit because I've had some Great conversations with reps and I've asked them candidly, like they, they know my position. I say, what do you think about training? And they're just like, Oh, and some will say it's a means to an end I just have to do it and so it's something that I just have to check off the box yeah, I'm like but that's how they view it. And We need to do more to change the mindset and the approach. I think that could lead to better engagement during the, during like the training process during their, like their lifelong learning process.
Kristina:Yeah, I think I had talked to someone. We were on an Xtalks webinar, and he was saying he brought people up that were in the president's circle and gave. And was like this is what they did or the extra things or the training and what they went into. Is that something similar where you think that would inspire people or is that still people like, it's just a lot of work. I'm not going to do it.
Allison:Yeah. No, I think that's a, actually a great idea of bringing out success stories. I think that we do that with our, like our sales enablement strategy, where we say these are the key skills, here's the choreography and we have rest of the talk about those success stories of what good looks like I don't think we do enough of here's how I. Here's my view of training, here's how I approached it here's how I did during training, and here's how I'm doing in the field. I don't think that we do enough of that. I think that's a great point.
Kristina:Yeah. And then, is a lot of this training, is it like, it's due by a specific date? Or is it still pretty flexible and people will just still go in and get it done?
Allison:I think it depends on the level. So if they are new hires, we do have a set curriculum that the fundamental has to be completed the first couple of weeks, the intermediate has to be completed in the first 90 days. And we structure that so that they are taking the. E learnings, and then it's stacked with instructor led training, you know that face to face, and then E learnings, and then it's face to face that kind of new higher two level. And we do run them through that track but it's, we're, yeah, I think there's definitely opportunity to look into that advanced level. I think there's definitely opportunity to. expand upon the personalized learning opportunity to invest more in, into reps and their lifelong learning journey.
Kristina:Yeah. Well, I mean, The great thing, it sounds like you can at least get enough sort of measurements that you can eventually tell the story we put this in place and then, and look what the impact was. that's really exciting.
Allison:Yeah, that's, yeah, you hit the nail on the head, that's what we're aiming to do now. And so it's just, it just takes a little time when you're measuring performance it's not a point in time, it is over time. And so it's, yeah, it just takes a little longer.
Kristina:Oh, I love that. It's not a point in time. It's over time.
Allison:Yeah.
Kristina:This has been so great, but, want to throw it out there Is there any advice that you want to leave the listeners with, because like we said, this is still it's a hot topic everyone wants to talk about it. But with knowing that there's some investment in both just sort of money and content and things like that that people might yeah. Be slow to adopt So what do you wanna leave the listeners with
Allison:engage your senior leadership, engage them in the research, get them excited. We are, we're fortunate that our senior vice president actually. wrote a white paper on no more, sell more, and launched into a lot of research that we've done within our own department within our own people. And so it, that was huge. That is key to innovating, to change, to. Launching things like personalized learning to investing into technology that will accelerate reps learning abilities and it's, I think that's key is engaging senior leaders.
Kristina:Yeah. I love no more, sell more. That is awesome. Yeah.
Allison:Yeah. Wow.
Kristina:I love it. Allison, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. If anyone has any questions, I'll we'll have your LinkedIn if people want to reach out and I'm just really excited to check in a year from now to see how things are going. Yeah.
Allison:I'll have the analytics and the reporting for you. That's very so much for being
Kristina:here. Listeners, you have been listening to another exciting edition of the learning journey podcast. Make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss any of our upcoming exciting episodes. Check out acto. com slash insights page for all our up to date content, including news, blogs, articles, and of course our podcasts,
