The New Hire Onboarding Journey with Michael Eugene

Featuring: Michael Eugene, Director of Commercial Excellence, ACTO

BIO: Michael is an accomplished Life Sciences professional passionate about driving innovation in Life Sciences, with a diverse background spanning commercial pharmaceutical experience, talent and leadership development, and technology. He started his career holding the bag as a sales representative at AstraZeneca, and over the years, he climbed the ladder, assuming pivotal roles in sales training and leadership. Later, his passion for connecting top talent with impactful opportunities led him to Spencer Stuart, a global executive search and leadership advisory firm. There, he played a crucial role in recruiting and placing C-suite executives within the pharma and biotech sectors across various functions, ranging from commercial to medical, finance, and business development.

Description: Uncover the blueprint for cultivating exceptional Life Sciences sales reps in this transformative podcast episode. Dive into innovative onboarding strategies, from microlearning to virtual training, that empowers reps to become competent, confident, and compelling communicators. Explore the power of real connections, patient stories, and creative learning methods that bridge the gap between product and purpose. Discover how continuous learning propels sales excellence and overcomes industry challenges as expert Michael Eugene shares insights to drive growth and transformation in pharmaceutical commercial leadership.

What you will learn: 

1.     Effective Onboarding for Competent, Confident and Compelling Sales Reps: Learn how this is achieved through an immersive onboarding process focusing on skill development and product understanding. 

2.     Engaging Learning Methods: Learn what methods to utilize and how these techniques, sales reps are more likely to retain information and remain engaged throughout the training process.

3.     Continuous Learning and Reinforcement:  Learn why leveraging technology for virtual coaching and personalized learning journeys can bridge the coaching gap and contribute to consistent performance improvement. 

BONUS: Connecting Product to Purpose: In the Live Training Meeting phase, the emphasis is on connecting the product to the patient's purpose. This approach is achieved by sharing patient stories and experiences. Real-life connections help sales reps understand the impact of the products they're selling, fostering a deeper understanding and motivation to deliver meaningful solutions to customers.

SHOW NOTES:

Guest LinkedIn: Michael Eugene

ACTO’s New Hire Onboarding Solution Brief 

Learning in the Flow of Work LTEN Article

Industry Insights: Bending the Spoon Blog 

Keep up to date on LinkedIn

https://www.acto.com/

Have a learning journey that you want to hear more about? Email us at podcast@actoapp.com  or find me on LinkedIn

Transcript

Episode 18 Kristina: 0:32

Welcome back to the learning journey podcast. I am your host, Christina Belyea. Are you ready to revolutionize your new hire onboarding process? In this power packed episode today, we're diving into the core of effective sales training, focusing on the new hire onboarding programs in life sciences. With our guest, we will uncover how to cultivate skilled, confident sales reps through innovative methods like microlearning and virtual training and discuss the impact of home study to live events. then stay tuned as we unravel the industry's varying perceptions of continuous learning and pull through seeking insights from our guests, rich experiences, get ready for an eyeopening exploration of trainings, transformative power. Today's guest is an accomplished life science professional passionate about driving innovation. With a diverse background spanning commercial pharmaceutical experience, talent, leadership, development and technology, our guest brings a wealth of expertise to the table. He started his career holding the bag as a sales representative at AstraZeneca, and then over the years, he climbed the ladder, assuming pivotal roles in sales training and sales leadership. Later, his passion for connecting top talent with impactful opportunities led him to Spencer Stewart, a global executive search and leadership advisory firm. There, he played a crucial role in recruiting and placing C suite executives within pharma and biotech sectors across Various functions ranging from commercial to medical, finance, and business development. Currently serving as the director of commercial excellence at Acto. He's instrumental in driving growth. Our guest today is Michael Eugene. Michael, welcome to the show.

Episode 18 Michael: 2:22

Thank you for having me, Christine. I'm very excited to be here.

Episode 18 Kristina: 2:25

I'm excited too. And we begin each episode by asking our guests why they're so passionate about assisting people and the industry in finding and excelling in their journeys. So Michael, tell us your why.

Episode 18 Michael: 2:37

Yeah, thanks for asking. I grew up, with a father as a physician. So I think the healthcare space has always been really interesting to me. not to mention my mom is a patient. So she has an autoimmune disease. And so I've watched her throughout her health journey. and that's been a big factor for me as far as why I care so much about this space. yeah. And then there's a true interest in the science. I think science is really interesting. I think our bodies are so intricately designed. And so that's something that's really important and really intriguing to me as well. But I would say it wasn't until I actually got into the pharmaceutical industry that all of those dots became connected and the picture and the why for me became clear.

Episode 18 Kristina: 3:20

Absolutely. And really it all starts with new hire onboarding and, I know that a lot of pharmaceutical people that I've spoken to, they're already thinking about their new hiring onboarding programs, budgets, all of that good stuff. So it's really interesting to me because I remember, probably a decade ago when I first got into this, people were starting to think about, do we change the rubric of hiring? And that goes right to the new hire onboarding program, but there was no ability to really have personalized learning and have what we have today. So I think this is really interesting with things like Acto, and other sort of platforms, what they're doing, because it really is going to change the hiring and the training of pharma sales reps. I think.

Episode 18 Michael: 4:05

Yeah, completely agreed. it's interesting. You brought up the idea of personalized, that's something that we talk about a lot in healthcare broadly, right? Like personalized health solutions, personalized healthcare for patients, and so it only makes sense that we mirror that in the pharmaceutical industry, specifically within training in the learning space. So having personalized, customized learning pathways and journeys, I think, is really cool. And I'm glad that the industry is making a turn in that direction.

Episode 18 Kristina: 4:30

Oh, me too. So I love that people can now change that. And I remember a doctor saying, he just, he said, I get it. He's but every rep seems like a cutout. And he said, I just want a rep who's empathetic, slightly humorous and charming to come into my office, especially on those bad days. So yeah.

Episode 18 Michael: 4:49

Yeah. No, that's yeah, that's spot on. I'm I'm smiling because I'm remembering when I first started out. As a drug rep, talked to my dad, who again is a physician and, said, what piece of advice would you give to me as I'm entering into these doctor's offices, the offices of your peers? and he said something very similar and just said, one, the best reps are the reps that treat my staff well. So just be human, be a good person. Good person, a kind person, and smile, be your charming self. And, he said that as my father. So got to take a little grain of salt because of course he has to think that I'm charming. but at the end of the day, I think that is something that's really important. yeah, I agree with you.

Episode 18 Kristina: 5:25

Yeah. So, I mean, that kind of sort of launches, I think, to this new hire onboarding process. And for this, obviously you just started at Acto with us a couple months ago. we'll put, we'll get your pharma hat back on for this conversation and use your experience there. so when we think about the new hire onboarding program, we're really trying to get, like we said, those reps to be competent, confident and compelling. So like we said that with that, the charming and slightly humorous in their selling skills. So when you're looking at a new hire onboarding program are you thinking about that? talk to me about best practices of trying to ensure that you're going to get that outcome.

Episode 18 Michael: 6:02

Yeah, that's a great question. So I love that notion. Competent, confident and compelling. I think that ultimately is the goal of a sales rep, right? We as sales reps, we want to come across as such. And so if that's the end goal, then backing it up to the onboarding or new hire training program, then that should be our goal as well. So we have to ask that question. How can we make sure that these reps walk away from this? four to six week experience, feeling confident, feeling competent, feeling compelling. And as far as, how we go about doing that, I think we'll start with the competent piece. that really is around the science, right? So with a new hire onboarding program, for example, I worked in our primary care space at AstraZeneca. So really focusing on cardiovascular and metabolic disease. So heart disease and diabetes. it's just starting there. Cardiovascular and metabolic, right? The goal is how can we simplify this so that it makes sense. So cardiovascular metabolic. What does that really mean? Heart disease and diabetes, right? So even at the beginning of understanding the therapeutic area that you're entering into, I think that's really where it begins. But then it really is about making sure that the science makes sense and that it's simple. And that you can not only understand it for yourself, but that you could convey it to others because as sales reps, our job is to teach our customers, right? Teach the ACPs. And although that may seem a bit daunting because they went to med school, they've done residency, they're the experts for sure. But we're an expert in our own right as well. And so making sure that we understand that and that we feel confident and that is really important. And The competence piece, again, comes in around how do we make sure that this science makes sense. and so that's a whole task for sure and it takes a whole team of people to ensure that. we use agency partners for sure to help us make the science simple. But then it also comes down to the trainers and in our virtual training classrooms in the live training setting, making sure that we're connecting all the dots so that we can, we like to say, marry the science to the cell. science, if it's just lecturing, then that's that's boring. And it's not really ultimately the goal, right? we can sit here and take you through this didactic. understanding of diabetes and all of the different organ systems that it impacts. But at the end of the day, if we can't connect that to how you're going to sell it in the field and make it impactful and draw the application, then it's pointless. So we try to operate with that in mind as we're looking through this science, what separated the nice to know from the need to know, and then how ultimately can we. connect this to what they're going to be doing in the field. So I would say that's the competence piece, the confident piece. practice makes perfect. So that's really around just repetition. We're constantly going to take you through drills, different verbalization so that we really get that messaging. Tight, both from a brand strategy perspective. So the marketing team, they developed the strategy for whatever brand that we're training on. So we wanna make sure that they're hitting those key points in the messaging, but also that it's landing and that they feel comfortable saying it. So part of that confidence piece is feeling comfortable with it as well. And then as far as compelling, ultimately our job. as reps is to be a storyteller. And so we really want to make sure that in our conversations with HCPs, we're telling a compelling story about a patient and the compelling piece comes in when we really start to connect a patient to the product. And so that's when it really resonates and hits home, I would say.

Episode 18 Kristina: 9:38

Absolutely. And so that sort of just really goes to me with reps are so very important. And I think that. for me, this is why I'm so passionate about rep enablement because you were in the GP space. GPs are inundated. You know, we're in Canada, every GP has so many people that they need to see in a day, you can wait for months to see them. So they don't have that time, as much as they would love to do the research. I think it's really, The reps are there to make that a little bit easier because they're, like you said, they're coming in, they're giving them the science in, talking about patients. Even if it's done in a storytelling way, it's still really vital information. especially as the drug goes along as drug life cycle to keep those. Those updates to the gp. So I just, I get really passionate about that because I know, I've talked to my gp, how busy she is and how she appreciates when reps come in, they're quick, she gets the information that she needs, and then she doesn't have to try to figure out, find that extra time you know what I mean?

Episode 18 Michael: 10:35

Yeah, no, totally. I'm really glad you brought that up too, because I think it's really, I think the perception of reps, from the ATPs perspective can be not as ideal, right? So I remember talking to some doctors and them, just straight up telling me, Hey, you guys are a necessary evil. we need you because we need the samples. but you're a you're annoying. And so it's funny because I think I hear that and I'm like, I get that. I think that's fair, but ultimately that's up to the rep to change it from a necessary evil to a necessary good, right? if all you see me as is I'm bringing you samples, then I've already lost, right? if I can't make that, 30 seconds to two minute. encounter with you valuable, that's on me, not on the doctor. So if you see me as a necessary evil, that means I'm not doing my job well or right. And so I love the challenge of kind of shifting the paradigm a bit within the ACP's perspective from going, from necessary evil. to really thinking of us as a necessary good. yeah, I'm glad you, you brought that up. It just reminded me of that one doctor that said that. And I was like, wow, okay, challenge accepted, sir.

Episode 18 Kristina: 11:43

Yeah, but, and I love that because what I like about these online platforms, and is the ability for the, the competency if you're hired and, if you're smart, whether you have science or not is your background. If, if you're smart enough, like that's easy, right? I would say that's more of the easy piece, the confident and compelling, which always leads me to that's role playing, but also coaching. that's where you want to dig in and that's where you want to be able to say, okay, I heard this. How do I then flip the script? How do I go back to that doctor and flip the script? And that's where it's like with these platforms, these training programs, these coaching, you can work on that. Because that's not. Anything against you and that's what I think about this rep enablement is. asking for coaching or asking for a scenario to help you go through some of these objections, I'm hoping with these abilities and the platforms, these conversations can evolve.

Episode 18 Michael: 12:35

Yeah, that's a great point. And again, highlighting the fact that the coaching piece is really important there too, which is why the relationship with the rep and the sales manager, is very important.

Episode 18 Kristina: 12:46

I read a stat the other day and I wanted to get sort of your insights on it. So it said new hire retention increased to 82% with effective onboarding processes. So is that something that you feel is true in life sciences? I believe the stat was more for general purposes. So what are your thoughts on that for life sciences?

Episode 18 Michael: 13:07

Yeah, I think it's certainly interesting statistic. I would say as a new hire, As a new learner within the life sciences industry. Your training experience is your first entry point into the organization, right? So that is a make or break moment for sure those you know that four to six weeks whatever it ends up being for various companies that is critical time for a rep to Really get a sense of the culture of the organization, get a sense for how they're going to fare in the organization. Will they be supported? Will they be successful? So all of those things you can ascertain within that first week, honestly, I would say. And so I think as a training department, as a learning development organization, it's been coming upon us to ensure that, that experience is one that Is one to remember and something that learner then leaves that time saying, I'm a part of really great Organization. I feel incredibly supported. I feel I've got people in my corner. I feel like this is a very collaborative environment and all of those things can come out within that new hire onboarding experience. And so yeah, while I don't know, I think you said 82%. I don't know if that's the exact stat for life sciences specifically, but I do think that we have that, we're that lever, so to speak, of ensuring that there's, that there's a good experience had by, by our learners.

Episode 18 Kristina: 14:30

so now we've talked about making sure they have a good learning experience. so when we're talking about new hire onboarding programs, and even in the intro, I meant, I mentioned various learning methods and things like micro learning quizzes, we've talked and mentioned coaching. So Talk to us about the content that you think is going to keep people engaged in learning is going to be impactful and, create that competent, confident and compelling, skills in the reps.

Episode 18 Michael: 14:59

yeah, that's a good question. I think you said it right, ensuring that learners are engaged. And learning that is interactive is going to, do better perform better than not. So if you've got just a bunch of modules and the rep is literally just sitting behind their computer screen and just clicking through, That's going to be pretty, pretty tough to get through. And you're going to, if you might have that one learner that is really into the science and really thrives and learning in isolation. that is some people, right? So I'm not going to, I want to give credit to that. But ultimately, I think. Anyone, I think we're we're designed and we're created for relationship. And so for me, I'm like, I want to make sure that we are learning in a community. I think that's really where true learning can happen. And so in a virtual setting, for example, how can we create that community? And so I think having things like videos, having things that ensure more, engagement interaction is going to be really critical to ensuring that again, those reps walk away confident, competent, and compelling. I think from, you mentioned micro learning, listen, we operate off of adult learning principles, right? And our attention span, It ain't great, right? So I think, we think about, children and toddlers and how we have to dish things out to them in bite sized pieces. For better or for worse, adults, we're the same way, right? There's so many things, Vying for our attention and we have so many competing priorities and all of them are fair, right? But that also means that there's a lot of distractions And so it what can we do to limit attractions in a learning space and I think micro learning is a really great way To achieve that and I think learning with others is a great way to achieve that as well, you know Anytime you can get people in a room together, I think there's gonna be way more focus, way more energy moving in the same direction. yeah, I think the beautiful thing is as The industry has evolved as technology has evolved. There's a lot of cool ways to do that. and it doesn't have to just be more of a just textbook only learning environment where you're just sitting there and reading something on a screen. and even just watching a video while that's a step in the right direction. It still could be a lot better with, various technologies that are on the table today. yeah, I think that road map and ensuring that when you At the outset of a learning journey, a learning program, you're thinking through those pieces like that's going to really ensure success that you're having the right conversations early on so that as you're building out this learning journey, you really are thinking about, okay, there's a real person on the other side of this that we need to be engaged. How are we going to achieve that?

Episode 18 Kristina: 17:48

Yeah, and I love that because it's L10, named August, like Gamification Month, which I'm totally obsessed with because I'm maybe slightly competitive, slightly over competitive. But, so I love this idea of where do you go? do you have to offer something tangible? Is a leader bored enough? But, what are your thoughts of incorporating gamification into this, microlearning environment or, on a a virtual platform. So

Episode 18 Michael: 18:13

Yeah. Yeah. you said it right. you're competitive. and I think that's true of most sales reps. I don't, you probably aren't getting into sales. if you don't have some, competition or competitive edge in you. And So with that, I do think that gamification is a really cool way to play to that, right? We've got a bunch of people in this room or in this virtual setting that are really competitive. How, how can we make sure that they're, they remain engaged and they have fun. I think that's another piece, right? Like it's that it's not wrong to have fun and training. And I think anything we can do to make it fun is really important. But I think the other kind of, outcome of that is. learning retention, right? think about how often you are playing a game and that just reinforces what your, the knowledge, right? And so I think about a lot of different gamification activities that I've seen in the industry. And, it reminds me of when you're studying back in college, for a test and you're using flashcards, for example, right? That is Maybe an archaic version of gamification. And we're, we're trying to recreate that in this setting. And obviously there's a lot of cool ways to do that. But ultimately, that is a way to, to reinforce the learning. And I think any way we can do that and have fun and achieve engagement. it's a win, win across the board.

Episode 18 Kristina: 19:32

Yeah. Oh, I love that. that sort of leads me into people in a room and as much as I like, cringe sometimes when I think of role playing. I felt though that As much as I love the virtual aspect, and I really do, and I think hybrid's the way to go, but when you get those people in a room, I always learned a lot from listening to how other people, answered an objection or how they phrased something when they were talking to, whoever it was. You know, now that we've talked about how to set up the home study, when we're linking that into the live training, the meeting phase, and I like that you called it, storytelling, because it is storytelling, and that's such an important skill to have, make it real by connecting the product to the patient's purpose. can you share some examples of, how you did this in your career and how this reinforcement approach really does impact the sales reps and, creates that. motivation and that sort of, like we said, the three C's. We'll call them the three C's of confident, confident, and compelling.

Episode 18 Michael: 20:30

Yeah, I love it. That's great. That's great. yeah, so the live training setting is definitely different, a different environment and it should be right. I think you said it well that is an opportunity to connect the dots, but we're putting it all together and making it real in that environment because they have just spent, they would have just spent, let's call it four weeks at home and now they're coming in for this final live, live experience. And so this is our opportunity to, to your right, make it real. and with that is when they really should start to put color around everything that they've learned. And I think for us in the life sciences industry, that is really where the compelling piece, where the plane is landed, how we achieve that in, in, in a live setting, I think one is, with patient stories. So I think back to my time in AstraZeneca. there was a, another trainer that I worked closely with and, he has type one diabetes. And while we focus more in type two diabetes, there was still a lot that we could glean from his experience with type one diabetes. And so he shared that. Every single training wave that we had, he would speak to his journey all the way from diagnosis to, to present day. And it was super compelling because you don't really understand the plight of a patient that lives with diabetes until you hear it from someone yourself, until you're living it yourself. And so getting to see the world of diabetes through his journey, I think is Really important. Another thing, and this again, helps us with connecting the patient to the product and our purpose. I remember one thing that he said, and it will, I will remember for the rest of my life. Often it's really easy for us to just say, diabetics, right? Diabetic patients. And he was like, these are people living with diabetes. And that just changed so much for me. It really transformed the way that I. That I saw these people because they are people right there people living with this disease and so To label them as Diabetics while that I get it why we do that and why it can make sense it also you know, it can minimize them to their disease and I don't think that is What we're trying to do or what really dignifies them as human beings. And so that's something, if there's one thing you hear, I hope that's it, that these are people that live with this disease. And so anyway, so shout out to Tony, who taught me that because he's, he really embodies that. But going back to the live environment, live training environment. So bringing in patient stories I think is really an effective way to, connect the patient to the purpose and also just to make things a bit more compelling for reps. and then you said it earlier, but opportunity to learn from each other, learn from peers, right? it's not really, it's not really stealing when you hear something you like, you're just using your resources, right? So that's how I like to think of it. and inevitably in a learning environment, you're going to have seasoned reps. You're going to have reps at a brand new industry. It's such a cool opportunity to watch the season reps learn from the new reps and the new reps learn from the veterans. And that's something that I really love seeing unfold. And, during these verbalizations and as we're practicing and really trying to get the messaging tight where we're hearing people start to make it their own, they're bringing their own personality into it, which is what you want, right? We don't want a bunch of robots. at this day and age, we probably could have a bunch of robots as cell straps and, but that's not the goal, right? We really want people in front of people. And so that's when the personality piece really can start to come in. And I think it's really fun when people say, Oh, I like the way you said that. I'm going to start saying it like that because it landed well with me. And that's just another fun way for it, for us to make it real and make it compelling. and then, there's other experiences that you can do as, as a training, training team. Like for example, at AstraZeneca, we did a day in the life. and so we would do something like, what would it be like to live like a patient that has type two diabetes? Or think the time I did, it was chronic kidney disease, if I'm not mistaken. and there, there are companies, you can partner with various agencies that, that will do this, but, it's really. I mean, wow, what an experience to truly, start to understand. And I say start to understand because we can never fully know what it's like unless we are living with it ourselves. And even then it's a different journey, a different experience for each person. but we can start to understand when we are, faced with it or immersed in this experience where We have a day we're spending a day living like person that lives with this disease. And so that's another, again, cool, innovative way. And I say cool, but I think it is fascinating. And I think it is a really good, effective way for us to, us to achieve learning and make the story compelling. And again, that learning retention piece comes in that experience as well. what's great about the industry and how it's evolved is that there are so many things at our disposal for learning and training, we can use so many different agency partners, all of this different technology to make the training impactful. And that's really. Ultimately the goal. so yeah, in a live setting, I think it's just all the better because we have the people in front of us, we have a captive audience. And so we're able to really put them through the ringer in a good way where they leave and they achieve those three C's, They've achieved competency, confidence, and they can tell a compelling story.

Episode 18 Kristina: 26:03

Yeah. Absolutely. And then I like this, we brought up. so we've got pre, the prom study, the pre study, the live event. And this is where it really interests me too. I saw that, a recent study showed that 73% of pharma sales managers spend less than 5% of their time coaching their field sales reps. And this idea of continuous learning, ongoing training so that you don't lose any of those, three C's. I feel like every company does this differently. Some people are really into continuous learning, some aren't. so let's talk about training reinforcement phase. now that you've left the live event, can you talk to us about some strategies that have seen or used that really help those reps to retain and then apply that knowledge, from the training when they're out in the field?

Episode 18 Michael: 26:49

Yeah. Gosh, that stat is, it's hard to hear, but it's also, Unfortunately believable. I think, and I struggled with it as well when I was a sales manager. I think again, going back to those competing priorities and all of them, I had a team with 10 reps, right? So for me, it's like ensuring that each rep. It gets their due time of coaching and my time in the field with them. But also we're humans too. And so sales managers have bad days. I might, there might be things going on at home that can impact the way that they, how effectively that they can coach. And so there's so many different factors that play into that. but ultimately I do think that we could do. a better job of ensuring that pull through, as you mentioned, and that learning retention, the continuous learning, is a part of the strategy moving forward outside of new hire onboarding and yeah, it's a tall order, but it's very important. So as far as, various strategies, employed, I think, it's. Easy to say this because I work for active and we have a learning platform. But I do think the notion of learning and the flow of work is really critical here, because at the end of the day for a sales leader. They just want reps out in the field in front of doctors and for good reason, right? that means more product for patients that means more and frankly more sales for the company more revenue those two things is you know, that's what keeps Companies running so it makes sense and that's why I think learning the flow work is that much more important. The fact that I can be driving from Dr. Smith's office to Dr. Harris's office and I can listen to a podcast, right? Or I can

Episode 18 Kristina: 28:25

Yes.

Episode 18 Michael: 28:25

be sitting in the waiting room because there's another rep, my competitor. Who is in the back talking with Dr Harris and I'm sitting in the waiting room and I can roll through different resources. I can look at different competitive landscape, discussion points in all my iPads so that I'm prepared for that conversation because I know Christina, you as the competitor, you are just in there, right? And I know you're really good and you're really compelling. So how can I now go up against that competition? And so I think any tool that allows for the rep to learn it. on the job, I think is really I important. but that doesn't negate the manager's role, right? And so I think that piece, becomes that much more critical and, to put a plug in for acto. Again, that's where I think the coaching capability is really cool. Because now while yes, ideally you still are spending time with, with your team actively in the field, right? There's still an element of coaching virtually now so I can create coaching scenarios. I can have a conversation with someone on my team in a virtual way where I'm sending them a video. They're sending me one back and we can have a dialogue, but don't have to be in the car together. And I think that's another thing that is really important. and frankly, that, I think COVID taught us a lot about what it means to, to. Be effective, be impactful in a virtual world. And even as managers, there was a time during COVID where. because the standard operating procedure that we put out as a company, managers cannot be in cars with reps. And cause we were trying to maintain that six feet of distance and, all of this stuff, which, it sounds so crazy now. And I'm like, I can't believe that was three years ago, but yeah, so all of that, the virtual coaching piece. That became really important and we had to find creative and innovative ways to do that. And so again, something like acto offers becomes that much more important. So I think there's a lot of different strategies that, that, you can think through. But I think the most important thing is ensuring that you are thinking about that, right? That you really are thinking about the pull through. What does it look like when they leave this training room? We've certified them. We've said that they're ready to go out to the field. how are we going to ensure that they continue to be ready for the field? And so that involves a lot of, synergy and collaboration among commercial learning development and sales leadership. we've got to learn how to better bridge that gap so that they, they being sales leadership, they look to us as a resource, as CLND. And I think, That could be a whole separate podcast episode because there's a lot to say there. But ultimately, I think, there's a lot to sales organizations to ensure that their reps do have that, that, competence, confidence, and that they can tell a compelling story. and it's up to us as commercial learning leaders to identify those ways and strategies. sell them, sell that strategy to self leadership so that we can, we can, really impact learners for the better.

Episode 18 Kristina: 31:32

Oh, that's great. And just looking at the time. I think we could talk so much longer, so we might have to have a part two at some point, but are there any sort of other insights or advice that you want to leave any of the listeners with when it comes to, best practices for new hire

Episode 18 Michael: 31:50

I think ultimately, again, it's a matter of ensuring engagement, ensuring interaction, and making it. Making it fun. Learning doesn't have to be boring. And even for people that, I didn't, I don't have a science background. I didn't major in anything science related in college. There's a lot of sales reps that come into this industry without that background. And so for them, maybe they don't have an affinity for science. Maybe that's not something that's super interesting to them, but they love people and pharma sales. Or they have, they know people that live with these various diseases. And so they want to be able to be a part of the solution or be a part of something bigger than themselves in that way. And so I think. anything that just keeping in mind that not everyone comes into the learning environment from the same place. and but at the end of the day, the goal is to learn and I think to have fun. And so asking yourself that question at the outset, how can we? Ensure learning happens and ensure people, have fun and are energized that's the task at hand. And and I would say, get creative. Don't be afraid of innovation. I think there's a lot of things that we can leverage within the industry that can help us to achieve that. And, there's a lot of different ways that we can do that. So lean into the creativity and the innovation. Thank you. and make it real. I think it is up to us to connect the dots from, okay, this is the science and this is how we connect it to the cell. but this is how we connect it to the person as well. yeah, the more we can color in around who is our patient, who is this person that is living with this disease, we'll be better for it.

Episode 18 Kristina: 33:29

I love that. Well, I'm still thinking about the day in the life. I think that is completely brilliant and it almost gets you right in the chest when you think about that. And then I'm hearing too. Personalized learning journey guys, to plug Acto, that's really important when you want to think of an onboarding program. You want to be able to have something that's going to be tailored to each individual learner based on, like you said, what their background skills, if it's science, if it's, business, what those soft skills are. So I think that innovation is really exciting and I really hope people lean into the personalized learning journeys and having platforms that are able to do that for them.

Episode 18 Michael: 34:05

Yeah, I completely agree.

Episode 18 Kristina: 34:09

all right guys, thank you so much. You've been listening to the learning journey podcast. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any of our exciting episodes. Check out acto. com slash insights for all of our up to date content where you'll find blogs, articles, and of course our podcasts.